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Midnight Conversations


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#1 Matthias

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 11:17 PM

I'm on Day 11 on my current playthrough and I've seen every sequence thus far. I thought it was interesting to hear them talk about Sangerhafen and Wien (I think that's the name of it; Sangerhafen is supposedly Katrina's homeland and Wien is her home city). The conversations are interesting to me because I had never heard of either place before (and I found an older post on AGD's forums about Katrina's background that came straight from Lori).

I guess I started this topic because I had a few questions about this dialogue:

1.) Shameen and Shema refer to the mountains in Spielburg as the Dragonsmoke Mountains; is this the official name for them? It's been ages since I've played through QG1 EGA and, during the end sequence when it shows you, Abdulla and the katta flying around on the carpet, it allows you to look at different landmarks in Spielburg valley. When you look at the mountains, does it call them the Dragonsmoke Mountains? Or, did Lori notify the AGD team of the name of the mountains? I was just curious where it had come from.

2.) Shameen and Shema speak of taking a caravan from Shapeir to Spielburg, settling down in Spielburg to wait for a hero and opening the inn; they comment that Abdulla showed up after they had. It was my understanding that they had traveled to Spielburg with Abdulla in his caravan and, when the brigands robbed him blind, they were all stuck there until someone defeated the brigands. Is this the canon version of the story and AGD took artistic liberty in fleshing the story out?
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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
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#2 Erpy

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 10:47 AM

Yeah, Sangerhafen and Wien are the Glorianna equivalents of Austria and Vienna.

First of all, the dialogue in that scene is all fanon and I'll be the last one to claim it's now meant to be part of an OFFICIAL timeline. I mostly used deduction while coming up with the lines for that scene.

Question 1 is easy. Yes, the official name is indeed Dragon Smoke Mountains. If you visit Erana's Peace and look at the mountain range to the north, this particular name is given.

Question 2 is a lot more open to debate. The QFG-games themselves are somewhat ambigious about it. There are arguments for both the idea that Shameen and Shema arrived in Spielburg together with Abdulla and the idea that they arrived there before him. Here's the arguments as I see them:


:Shameen and Shema arrived together with Abdulla in Spielburg:

- This biggest argument I could find was that Shameen and Shema intended to return to Shapeir using the profits from Abdulla's caravan. It is mentioned that due to the robbery of the caravan, "their wealth" was lost as well.

- It's fairly believable too. It's not like there are planes flying between Spielburg and Shapeir every few hours. Shameen and Shema probably travelled with some caravan at some point, so why not Abdulla's.


:Shameen and Shema arrived before Abdulla in Spielburg:

- When asked about the robbery, Abdulla mentions only his six guards and his assistents, but not the Kattas. Neither Shameen nor Shema can tell you about the robbery in detail, only Abdulla does. Shameen and Shema kinda talk about the brigands robbing Abdulla, rather than "robbing us".

- Shameen and Shema refer to Abdulla as their guest.

- According to the sheriff, Abdulla's caravan was robbed "last week", meaning Abdulla's only arrived in Spielburg a few days before you arrived. If Shameen and Shema had been on Abdulla's caravan and thus arrived in Spielburg completely penniless too, how did they manage to completely set up a functioning inn in only a few days while being completely broke?

- Shameen praises the sheriff as being kind and wise and he mentions that the sheriff, his wife and Otto "sometimes come over to eat at the inn". That again suggests the inn has been running for more than a day or two.



To be perfectly fair...the official QFG guide makes mention of Shameen and Shema travelling with Abdulla. However, it was my understanding that Paula Spiese wrote that guide while the Coles mostly served as consultants, so it's possible this was something that was overlooked. I didn't own the guide when that scene was added and when I read the guide later and reviewed my deductions, the latter conclusion still made more logical sense and I kept things the way they were. It's perfectly possible that in this here post, I've already nitpicked and overanalyzed the situation more than Lori ever did when she wrote the story. After all, QFG4 also contains a few frowners such as Punny's quick way of leaving Mordavia and arriving/departing Silmaria before you get there or "the King" promising the Burgomeister he's to be the next Boyar even though the swamp is still in the process of disappearing.

Like I said, the midnight talks with Shameen and Shema are completely fan-made, added to develop the Katta couple as Devon's personal friends a little bit more before they leave the public stage permanently. I relied completely on my own sense of logic and deduction and not on any official word, so you could say I took some artistic liberty.


Edited by Erpy, 19 October 2008 - 11:58 AM.


#3 Matthias

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 04:37 PM

QUOTE (Erpy @ Oct 19 2008, 05:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like I said, the midnight talks with Shameen and Shema are completely fan-made, added to develop the Katta couple as Devon's personal friends a little bit more before they leave the public stage permanently. I relied completely on my own sense of logic and deduction and not on any official word, so you could say I took some artistic liberty.

And you did a great job of it smile.gif

Thanks for the answers, Erpy. It's been a long time since I've actually read all the dialogue in QG1 (long, long time), so I'm a bit rusty on some of the nuances, like what you covered. I was just curious about those few things, since my memory wasn't clear. I'm glad that Shameen and Shema get more characterization though in the remake. smile.gif
Shepard: I'm offering to be your friend. You don't want to be my enemy.
Garrus: They have a way of dying...

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
My name is Matthias and I am a Warrior.
What kind of Hero Are You?
www.theschoolforheroes.com

#4 Rath Darkblade

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 12:39 PM

Midnight talks with Shema and Shameen?? *blink* I must have missed those when I played. When do they happen? *devoured by curiousity*
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#5 Erpy

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 03:24 PM

[slam dunk]Why, they happen at midnight, of course.[/slam dunk] Heh, sorry. Trust me, I TRIED to resist.

In the original EGA game, the inn remained open 24/7 and if you had the patience, you could just sit there and have staring matches with Shameen for days on end. (I recall patrons being there at ungodly hours too) In the remake, the time schedule is kept a bit more strictly. As day ticks over to night, shop owners chuck you out, merchants disappear from the alleyways and plazas and gate guards replace one another. If you try to leave the inn after mid-afternoon, Shameen will give you the spare key so you can get back in after closing time.

Days in QFG2 consist of "time blocks". On timeblock 30 each day, night-still-young ticks over to mid-night and if you're in the main inn at that time, Shema will come out, Shameen will call for everybody's attention and says the restaurant is closing. It's not until timeblock 31 that Shameen and Shema actually go to bed. In that small time window, even though it's officially mid-night, the door to the inn will be unlocked and you'll see Shameen and Shema sitting at your table and relaxing a bit. The first time (whether you enter the room at the right time or are present when Shameen tells the patrons to go home), Shameen invites you over to sit down and share some tea with them.

Sitting down at your usual spot at this time makes a dialog menu pop up with 3 choices..."talk about yourself", "talk about them" and "bottoms up". The last one ends the conversation and moves time to timeblock 31, the first one allows Devon to share some stories about his adventures in Spielburg with his friends and the second option allows Shameen and Shema to share some stories about their journey to Spielburg. The resulting dialogue is both fanon and unique to this particular scene, there's no way to access it on other points in the game. There are 16 conversations in total...one for each day and the conversations you get depend on how often you've swapped stories with the Katta couple before. (so the only way to get conversation 16, for example, is to go through conversation 1...15 on the preceeding days) Having tea and swapping stories has no practical purpose in the game...it's just there to maintain the illusion that your furry friends are actual people, rather than mechanical non-player characters whose sole function is to supply you with meals and alert you to the presence of elementals.

EDIT: The "talk about yourself"-messages are not really connected to each other...they're just tales about the various things you came across in the first game. (like your arrival, the monsters there and the baronet) Shameen and Shema's tales do form a larger whole that stretches across the various conversations. If you're a fighter who visits EOF, the last two scenes are blended into one, since finishing EOF automatically lets you sleep until morning.


Edited by Erpy, 22 October 2008 - 07:52 PM.


#6 Split Personality

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 12:40 AM

QUOTE (Erpy @ Oct 22 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...On timeblock 30 each day, night-still-young ticks over to mid-night and if you're in the main inn at that time, Shema will come out, Shameen will call for everybody's attention and says the restaurant is closing....


Hmmm.... I'm gonna have to look for this particular sequence next time I play through the game. I stumbled on the midnight conversations after monster hunting one night on Day 3 or 4 or so, so I didn't get to hear them all, but I was known to reload older save games if I missed a conversation. Now I'm curious if you actually animated patrons leaving, since, in my experience, they're always static images.

The dialogue is great work, by the way. It real feels in character (though, I suppose, the fact that Shema and Shameen are sketches more than fleshed out characters to begin with makes that easier).

On an entirely off-topic note, are the various characters' (outside of Dinarzad's, anyway) reactions to the Thief Sign in the original? I tried making the sign to Rakeesh and was rather amused that he recognized it, and was even nice enough to caution you against advertising your profession too obviously. I'm still unclear whether Issur recognized the sign, or just thought I was making fun of him! (I strongly suspect the latter, but his reaction to the sign is very... abrupt.)

#7 Erpy

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 05:21 AM

No, the patrons leaving isn't animated. (they're static images) After Shameen and Shema announce that the place is going to close, you simply get a fadein/fadeout.

I think Rakeesh' reaction to the sign was in the original...he's probably got around enough to learn about it at some point. Issur's reaction to the sign was in the EGA version as well. (and yeah, he thinks you're simply making fun of him) The other messages (like the merchants') isn't, nor are the reactions you get when picking your nose around other people.



#8 Split Personality

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 04:52 AM

QUOTE (Erpy @ Oct 23 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...nor are the reactions you get when picking your nose around other people....


Now THAT'S something I hadn't tried before. (Then again, I haven't played as Thief, either.)

#9 Erpy

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 05:41 AM

Picking your nose in front of other people in real life probably gives a good idea what to expect...mostly. It was implemented because I couldn't believe people would remain completely oblivious while someone was mining gold in front of them like crazy. Keapon's and the Dervish reactions (the Dervish has multiple ones) are particularly amusing. It was one of the opportunities the hero gets to make an Equus asinus out of himself. (the thief sign being another one)


Edited by Erpy, 24 October 2008 - 05:44 AM.


#10 Rath Darkblade

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (Erpy @ Oct 22 2008, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[slam dunk]Why, they happen at midnight, of course.[/slam dunk] Heh, sorry. Trust me, I TRIED to resist.


*drum fill* wink.gif

Thanks for the very detailed answer, Erpy! I'll try that next time. smile.gif
My Inner Hero - Wizard!



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There are many types of magic, but all require a sharp mind and a cool head. There is no puzzle I can't solve, no problem I can't think my way out of. When you feel confused or uncertain, you can always rely on me to untangle the knots and put everything back in order for you.

#11 Rath Darkblade

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 11:18 AM

Hmmm... I tried finding the midnight conversations, and I enjoyed them immensely. Good work! smile.gif

However, Shameen and Shema weren't at my table every night. I'm not sure what happened...? I had dinner and went to rest in the backroom until the time says "Midnight" - and yes, they were there most nights, but not every night. Any ideas? *shrug*

Thanks! *smile* I'm really enjoying the Shema and Shameen's backstory, as well as the hero's take on things. Way to go! *thumbs up*

Edited by Rath Darkblade, 09 November 2008 - 11:18 AM.

My Inner Hero - Wizard!



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There are many types of magic, but all require a sharp mind and a cool head. There is no puzzle I can't solve, no problem I can't think my way out of. When you feel confused or uncertain, you can always rely on me to untangle the knots and put everything back in order for you.

#12 Erpy

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 05:26 PM

They are there each night, but it's not difficult to miss the window of opportunity. They're only there for one game hour. (resting an hour, ironically, skips two game hours and there's 5 game hours in day blocks (like mid-afternoon or sunset)

If you already unlocked blue frog mode, you can see this by setting globalint number 55 to 1. This'll make the game clock visible. Shameen and Shema's break starts at 30:0:0 and ends at 31:0:0. During that time, the inn is already empty, but the front door is still unlocked.

Glad you enjoyed them. It's possible to play through the game and get all 16 (or 15 if you're a fighter), but it requires one to be pretty punctual and keep a close watch on the time.



#13 Rath Darkblade

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 01:24 PM

Blue frog mode?? *confused* I'm well aware of the "suck blue frog" cheat, but when I tried it, all my stats are reset to -5 for some reason. So I figured that QfG2 VGA punishes you for trying something that hackneyed. wink.gif

So how do you unlock blue frog mode? *is now curious*
My Inner Hero - Wizard!



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There are many types of magic, but all require a sharp mind and a cool head. There is no puzzle I can't solve, no problem I can't think my way out of. When you feel confused or uncertain, you can always rely on me to untangle the knots and put everything back in order for you.

#14 Matthias

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 05:43 PM

QUOTE (Rath Darkblade @ Nov 10 2008, 06:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Blue frog mode?? *confused* I'm well aware of the "suck blue frog" cheat, but when I tried it, all my stats are reset to -5 for some reason. So I figured that QfG2 VGA punishes you for trying something that hackneyed. wink.gif

So how do you unlock blue frog mode? *is now curious*

You have to capture the Blue Frog at the Oasis that sometimes shows up there, keep him in your inventory, and beat the game with full points. I didn't want to give away how to capture the frog, but if you need help with it, I'm sure an answer can be given (it's also easily found on the internet wink.gif ).
Shepard: I'm offering to be your friend. You don't want to be my enemy.
Garrus: They have a way of dying...

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
My name is Matthias and I am a Warrior.
What kind of Hero Are You?
www.theschoolforheroes.com

#15 Erpy

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:17 PM

Note that you'll lose the chance to capture it about halfway of your stay in Shapeir.

But yeah, Blue Frog Mode is a debug mode. There's also an additional debug mode called Battle mode which has some options the usual debug mode does not have.