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#31 Elsa Von Spielburg

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 09:52 PM

Personally I don't use any patches - I just run the games in DosBox and they work just fine smile.gif

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#32 Alcibiates

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 10:48 PM

Alright, I'm fighting with dosbox again to make it run QFG3, I copied the files to my HD, and when I type the command line C:\QG3E\SIERRA.EXE which is what it is, I get the message "can't find interp. ERRCan't find interp. ERR" Anyone know what the problem might be?

I tried running the install from dosbox as well, got the following message
"FATAL ERROR: Can't find text video entry for 'videoprompt'. This can be caused by a missing install.txt or install.hlp file,
Module: textdict.cpp(148)"

I'm going to try running it from the CD now.
EDIT
Same thing trying it from the CD as well...durnit

Edited by Alcibiates, 30 October 2004 - 11:00 PM.


#33 Charles

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 11:58 PM

**EDIT**

Heh... took me over an hour to write this... well, I’m not deleting it, but let me ask you some things...

Which cd version did you say you had? Anthology? That’s the one with the four pictures of the hero on the front, from the first four games?

It sounds like you didn’t copy everything over completely... but I don’t see how, if you just copied over the folders.

Are you sure your disc is good? No obscene scratches, or unexpected holes, say?

On the CD, was it the same Error about the videoprompt entry missing?

Just had a thought... you are typing “CD \QG3E\” before typing SIERRA.EXE, right? It’s much easier if you go there through windows... plus you can use VDMSound right there, instead of opening a command prompt with VDMSound first.

**RESUME ORIGINAL LONG-WINDED POST**

I’m Unknown Hero on the Sierra forums now, but I think way back when there was another Unknown Hero. When they switched from the old forums years back (before QFG5 even, I think) I had joined up and used the name Unknown Hero without realising there was somebody else who had already laid claim to the name, so to speak. I just chose the name, because that was the default name if you left it blank in the original QFG1 (or Hero’s Quest as it was known by in those days; back then we tied an onion around our belts, as was the fashion of the day... ....)

But back to reality. You’re exactly right about installing the patches; just unzip them into your QFG3 folder, and if it asks to overwrite a file, do so. It may very well not ask. I guess “installing” is a bit of a misnomer. You’re not really doing anything. If I could just drift of on a slight tangent for a second, let me tell you one of the reasons why the old Sierra games were so good. Updates. All the classic Sierra games from King’s Quest 4 onward (that is SCI, if you’re familiar with that name; “Pause-While-You-Type” if you’re not) are just a collection of backgrounds, animations, sounds/music, and scripts (etc.) thrown together in a single file, much like the zip files of today. You may recognise these as the RESOURCE.000, and perhaps RESOURCE.001, etc., files found in the game’s folder. (The .001, .002, and so forth are so the game can be played form multiple disks, when the games were small enough to be able to do that... but I digress from my digression.) You can have your backgrounds, animations, sounds/music, and scripts in the collected RESOURCE.000 file, or they can just be loose in the folder. Now, here’s where the genious comes in. If the game finds a file loose in the folder, it assumes this is a newer version, and uses it instead of the one in the larger RESOURCE.000 file. Since the “patch” files (your backgrounds, animations, sound/music, scripts, etc.) are much smaller individually, it makes it much easier for Sierra to distribute fixes or corrections to their games, and makes it all that easier for the end-user (you) to apply them.

The timer fixes are simply the work of one man (NewRisingSun) re-writing selected scripts from the game to make them not-dependant on CPU speed; Something the programmers back at Sierra were supposed to do, and encouraged to do, because it is better programming. But since at the time, computers were slow enough that if you didn’t make it independant from CPU speed, it ran just as fast as if it was dependant, and dead-lines keep looming evercloser and closer, they took shortcuts because it looked like no harm, no foul. Turns out, for nostalgia fans, big harm and foul.

Personally, I’m much more in support of throwing these new timer-corrected scripts into the game that using DOSBox. Not only is it easier, but I think it’s a better solution. To me, using DOSBox, or slow-down utilities aren’t really solutions, they’re just ways of avoiding the problem, but they may not neccessarily be healthy for your computer. Think of it this way; would you think it’s a good idea to drive a manual-transmission in 1st gear all the time, just because you like to floor it without worrying about going over 30mph? If you have termites, do you just slap a fresh coat of paint over the holes? The way DOSBox and these slow-down programs make your games more playable is by forcing your CPU to do extra useless tasks so it can’t concentrate fully on the thing you want to slow down. That means, since it has less time to dedicate to your game, the game runs slower. And in the case of Sierra games, so it will run slow enough that the faulty programming won’t show any of it’s flaws. Technically speaking, it’s not the best thing for your CPU to be running extra hard just to slow down a game, especially when there are other alternatives. The harder your CPU runs, the hotter it gets, the worse it is for the stability of your entire system, and the shorter your CPU will last. Now, mind, even if your CPU only lasts 5 years (and that’s an extreme example... you’re more likely to only get 20 years out of it instead of 50, by running it hotter), how many peopel will still be using the same computer five years from now? Ten years from now? Practically speaking, you probably won’t notice any performance loss. But back to five years, or ten years from now... The best reason DOSBox works to get past timer issues is because DOSBox is so system intensive, it naturally slows the system down enough to play the old games without a problem. But as computers get faster and faster, and more and more sensitive to overheating, this could become an issue again, in as little as 3 years. Anyways, to wrap it up, I have always preferred fixing the problems as opposed to circumventing them, when applicable.

That’s not to say DOSBox doesn’t have some other appreciable attributes. Some builds have MT-32 emulation, and then there’s the graphic scaling/antialiasing. But if you’re using it for just slow down, trust me when I say there are now better ways.

Edited by Charles, 31 October 2004 - 12:10 AM.

You might recognise me as Unknown Hero, from the Sierra community forums. Hello; Goodbye.

#34 Spikey

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 12:30 PM

For QFG1-3, DOSBOX is not needed, as I said.. Shadows of Darkness is the only QFG game where benefit is derived from using DOSBOX, and that's purely music related. Which means a lot to me- I love the game's score.

The QFG Anthology has a problem with its' installer. However, if you run the appropriate 'install.exe' files FROM THE CD, from the individual game folders, the games should be fine on your hard disk. From there, simply patch QFG1-3 and run with VDMS and Speedset. For QFG4, run with DOSBOX as Elsa and others have outlined previously.

It's very simple. It annoys me so much when people complicate things..

And Charles, you certainly are familiar to me.. I remember your brief stint at our Space Quest forums.

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New QFG music coming in 2012/13.

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#35 Almirena

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 02:24 PM

Excellent information, all. This should be impossible to mistake... and I hope the information proves of inestimable value to all players.
...bruiseless breath / Frosts the sweet solemnity of star-embracing night,
Purpled, music loud as silence; Is this dreaming death?


Sounds Sublime... Because Music Ought to be a Banquet for the Senses...

#36 Alcibiates

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 04:09 PM

Sorry for those of you who are getting frustrated, I do have a tendancy to make things harder than they are. But to be fair, I did say I would need to have my hand held to get through this in my oringal post.

Now, back to QFG3, I'm assuming then that the 'could not initialize audio hardware" at the beginning doesn't matter then right? So, now my two questions are

1. How do you use speedset, do I have to go to dos? I read the readme that came with it, but I don't quite understand how to apply it to the game

And I tried doing what charles said by installing QFG4 with the installer off the CD, but I got the same "video prompt" error I got from trying to use dosbox with qfg3. Durnit, very close.

And yes, my version is anthology, but no, the CD is in very good condition.
EDIT
Update, reinstalled dosbox, and everything is working fine now, one question, do I need to install the patches if i'm using dosbox?

Also, installed and patched dragon vire to 1.0.0.2, but whenever I try to run, it tells me it encountered an unexpected error and crashes, anyone have any ideas?

Edited by Alcibiates, 31 October 2004 - 06:42 PM.


#37 Charles

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 08:30 PM

The “could not initialize audio hardware” error should be fixed with this link Spikey gave above: ftp://ftp.sierra.com/pub/patches/pc/sb16drv.exe

I don’t think you’d need to use the timer-patches if you’re using DOSBox, but it also shouldn’t hurt, either.

All I can suggest for Dragon Fire is to set the Compability for Windows 95 or 98.

Speedset is something Spikey can help with; I’ve never heard of it because of my irrational bias on slow-down utilities.

And Spikey, what was it that reminded you? Was it my avatar, or my cocky “Know-it-All” attitude? I’d imagine you got more than a few fly-by-nighters when NewRisingSun came out with his timer-patches. I still occasionally check out your SQ forums, but admitedly not so much lately, since I re-installed my computer. Lost all my favourites, y’know.

I hope I didn’t complicate things too much, as I have a tendency to do, and at least helped a little.

Edited by Charles, 31 October 2004 - 08:31 PM.

You might recognise me as Unknown Hero, from the Sierra community forums. Hello; Goodbye.

#38 Alcibiates

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 08:41 PM

awesome, thanks for all the help. I heard that compatibility should be set for windows 98, I'm just not sure how one goes about doing that...I don't suppose you could give me one more nugget of information :-D

Edited by Alcibiates, 31 October 2004 - 08:53 PM.


#39 Charles

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 09:18 PM

Of course. wink.gif

Just right-click on your Dragon Fire shortcut, and you’ll see a tab at the top that says Compatibility. Just check off the “Run this program in compatibility mode for” option, and select the Windows version you want. You could also try the other options if you find you need them. I don’t think any of those other ones help Dragon Fire though.
You might recognise me as Unknown Hero, from the Sierra community forums. Hello; Goodbye.

#40 Alcibiates

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 09:30 PM

Alright

Every game except 4 is working perfect now, however, I thought I had 4 cased, but I actually tried playing it, and there is no voice...I did the maximum installation in the install..., but no voices...I can taste it, I'm so close to having the series working perfectly...Now, I think it has something to do with the CD, since I've heard that the voices come off the CD. Now the CD is in the right drive (E) and when I open the game in dosbox, all other sounds play right, and theres the pause for the speaking, but there is no Jonathan Ryes Davies talking...Sorry for lying earlier, guess there was a little more than one last nugget o' help needed ^_^

I ran the installer, it installed the .bat file onto my c drive. I run that file in dosbox, and when I get into the actual game, the messages go to fast for me to read, there's no voice.

Edited by Alcibiates, 31 October 2004 - 11:25 PM.


#41 Spikey

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 01:59 AM

QUOTE
And Spikey, what was it that reminded you? Was it my avatar, or my cocky “Know-it-All” attitude? I’d imagine you got more than a few fly-by-nighters when NewRisingSun came out with his timer-patches. I still occasionally check out your SQ forums, but admitedly not so much lately, since I re-installed my computer. Lost all my favourites, y’know.


Heh.. a bit of everything, Charles. <grin>
And you have no idea how many people actually were posting there! We're back to around 20 actives again, now.
I must say I love the 'Thin Crust, No Anchovies' avatar. Awesome stuff.

Alcibiates- For Speedset, you make a batch file (run Notepad and save as a .bat file, or just rename it as one) with the contents "speedset .005 <insert game executable here>".

For QFG4.. run install.exe from the CD, and then timer patch it and DOSBOX it (though- I doubt the timer patch is terribly helpful under DOSBOX). I dpn't know- there may be a problem with DACBLAST.DRV under DOSBOX. I must check these things out..

- Spike
Sierra Music Central - your place to visit for Sierra soundtracks of yore. Still updated (every so often) after 10 years!
New QFG music coming in 2012/13.

My name is Spike and I am a Warrior.

Warrior Shield

What kind of Hero Are You?

www.theschoolforheroes.com


#42 Alcibiates

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 02:39 AM

Alright, I did that, now what do I do with the bat file? I tried running it with VDM, but it crashes, and doesn't even load the game, says its not a valid MS-DOS program. I tried with and without the <>. I copied the game executable from the file itself, the same one I was using with VDM before, but nothing.

#43 Charles

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 05:09 AM

Alcibiates, I think I can help with your QFG4 audio problems. It sounds like a classic case of you not having the CD in the drive, when you play the game.

There might be some “complications” because of your using DOSBox.

First things, if you cannot get the voices working, but don’t want it to skip the text as well, when you run the game go to the control panel (that’s the place where you can save, load, set skill and etail settings; a whole host of stuff) and turn off voices. The game is expecting to find the voices, and is planning on clearing the text box as soon as the voices are done playing. No voices, no delay.

Now, as for actually fixing the problem: Did you install the game in DOSBox, or a regular old Comand Prompt? (Or Windows Explorer, or the Run dialog; those would be the same as command prompt.)

Your CD-ROM Drive would normally be, what, E?
Are you mounting E as your CD-ROM drive in DOSBox?

I would suggest keeping your DOSBox mounting the same as (or at least similar to) what they are in Windows if you plan on playing these games both inside and out of DOSBox. If you’re just going to be playing it through DOSBox, but installed it outside of DOSBox, then you should just need to change the configuration file for Quest for Glory 4. Just go to the QFG4 folder, and open up RESOURCE.CFG in notepad, and change any line pointing to your Windows CD-ROM drive to whatever your CD-ROM drive is mounted as in DOSBox.

Edited by Charles, 01 November 2004 - 05:10 AM.

You might recognise me as Unknown Hero, from the Sierra community forums. Hello; Goodbye.

#44 Alcibiates

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 02:41 PM

Woot, got it working. Now, one game left, and I'm sure spikey can help clear me of the problems I'm having with getting speedset to work for GFQ3 :-D Hopefully THIS is the last help I'll be needing...

#45 Elsa Von Spielburg

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Posted 02 November 2004 - 12:48 AM

Great smile.gif

My name is Elsa Von Spielburg and I am a Paladin.

What kind of Hero Are You?

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