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WARNING for those who want to mention Abandonware:

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#16 Arlo


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Posted 23 September 2007 - 02:46 PM

Well, I'm not saying Elsa or Almirena should turn this into an Abandonware site. But if someone wants to post something along the lines of "Oh you used to have Qfg, but can't prove you had it? Let me send it to you," or even "Oh you should try it, let me send it to you," I think they should "risk it" just because it's the right thing to do. (We established it was the right thing to do when other people pointed out that it's not ripping off Vivendi, since they're not selling the game anyway. And if someone wants to play it and they can't buy a copy because Vivendi isn't supporting it anymore, let them get a copy from someone else. It's not ripping anyone off. Also, I tend to view the Coles as the rightful owners of the intellectual property, not Vivendi or even Sierra.)

To be honest, I think it's fair to say Vivendi won't take anyone to court or shut down this site or anything. Yes, maybe they could if they wanted to, but in every other instance of Abandonware or Fanware relating to Vivendi's intellectual property, Vivendi, LucasArts, and anyone else you can name, has only said "Please stop doing this." Believe me, no business--particularly one that's publicly traded and has to justify its expenses to its shareholders--is going to spend hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of dollars, when they can just tell you to stop spreading their Abandonware. Businesses tend to want to avoid legal battles because of all the costs involved. So much so that most businesses make it a habit to settle matters out of court, even in instances in which they know the person suing them has no case (one reason why frivilous lawsuits have become so common in the US now). Also, suing the site owners for money they don't have is similar to taxing the poor. In pretty much all societies, including the notoriously cruel Dark Ages, everyone was expected to pay a tax to the wealthy landowners (barons and so on). But the homeless were always exempt from the tax because people had common sense. It was obvious that taxing people who had nothing wasn't going to reap any rewards. That's basically the same thinking here. Yeah, Vivendi could sue over it, but big businesses NEVER do that. Because they know it's pointless. Honestly, it's so unlikely that Vivendi would take any serious legal action, that it's next to set in stone that they wouldn't. This is just how big businesses work.

Mind you, I don't mean to sound as though I'm criticizing Elsa or Almirena. I think they've put up a great site, and they seem to be pretty helpful to people who post on here. I think what they've done here is great. I'm just saying I think they're taking the whole "No Posting Abandonware Thing" a tad too seriously. And yes, all moderators do it. But it's still taking it too seriously. And yes, I understand why they're doing it. But it's still taking it too seriously. And no, I don't expect them to change their policy based on anything I've posted here. This is just my two cents on the matter. Other people mentioned it was unfair, and I'm only saying I agree. That's all.

#17 Darian Kheynes

Darian Kheynes

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 10:38 PM

Just as a point of interest: When people take screen shots of these games and post them here, well aren't the images also the copyright holder's property? Some smartass attorney could argue, that we're giving away the game, though in a different form, when we post these images... I'm just wondering...

Edited by Darian Kheynes, 23 September 2007 - 10:39 PM.

"Fear holds us and binds us and keeps us from growing... It kills a small piece of us each day. It holds us to what we know and keeps us from what's possible, and it's our worst enemy. Fear doesn't announce itself; it's disguised, and it's subtle. It's choosing the safe course; most of us feel we have 'rational' reasons to avoid taking risks... The brave man is not the one without fear, but the one who does what he must despite being afraid. To succeed, you must be willing to risk total failure; you must learn this."

- Raymond E. Feist, The King's Buccaneer

#18 iamtheman


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Posted 24 September 2007 - 03:34 AM

Nah - that's a completely different kettle of fish. That would fall under the "advertisement" category.

#19 Almirena


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Posted 24 September 2007 - 12:24 PM

1. Vivendi Universal has the legal right to prosecute anyone treating their legal property as abandonware. (This is nothing to do with moral right. It's simply legalities.)

2. A website suggesting or supporting abandonware can legally be taken down at the request of the person or corporation whose intellectual property has been abused in that way. Web hosts explicitly state this in their terms of use.

3. We're not changing the rules here. We're happy to help anyone who can prove they legally own the game in question. They don't even need their receipt - a photograph of them holding the original CD is perfectly fine. We will not recommend or support (even tacitly) abandonware.

This isn't a discussion. It's me getting mean and tough, and I will personally swing up by the googlies anyone who transgresses the rules here and posts any sort of link to abandonware if they know we've explicitly said "Don't do that". The swinging up will be over a pit of insane crocodiles who feed on piranha for breakfast. I will also have two sweaty slaves standing by with feather dusters, to mercilessly tickle the soles of he-who-is-suspended-by-the-googlies, for as long as Prometheus continues to have his liver plucked out.

To reiterate, I'm not stopping anyone here from getting as many illegal copies as they want. I'm not a policewoman, I'm not a Vivendi employee, I'm not your conscience, and I'm not tracking what you do. The issue is what's posted here. I'm not bending an iota on this, and the crocodiles are merciless.

#20 iamtheman


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Posted 24 September 2007 - 01:15 PM

For the love of God! Don't let her dangle your "googlies" over a pit of crocodiles, Bro. I've seen what happened to poor James Bond's "two Jacks and a club" in Casino Royale and believe me, a thick hemp rope is a walk in the park compared to... gulp... crocs.

Edited by iamtheman, 24 September 2007 - 01:17 PM.