Is it the rushed feeling the game gives? Is it the Graphics? Is it the music?

I've heard people saying that QG3's not what it could've been...

What's so wrong with it? Personally... I like it!

Well one of the problems I had with "Wages of War" was that the sequence you had to do things in was very rigid, while the story was so loose that you sometimes lost the urgency of the situation and used hours just wandering the savanna looking for what to do next or building up your stats.

You might then well ask "Then what about "Trail by Fire", it had an even more liner story - the elementals appeared on specific days, and if you steeped a bit out of life you got booted to the death screen" - True, but "Trail by Fire" had the urgency that "Wages of War" so sorely missed - except of course for the wait in Rashier - which was, for me at least, a bit of a slump in the game.

I think that theres a interview with Corey Cole somewhere around the internet, in which he mentions that they filled "Shadows of Darkness" with so many sub-plots and quests, to remedy for leading the player so much around by the hand in "Wages of War"

There's nothing wrong with it. It takes second place after TbF in my book for the ambient feel.

What's more, it boasts a lot of the most attractive women in the series (in fact, practically all the females in that game are most excellent, with the only exception being the bead seller). I don't think it feels rushed at all, unlike QfG V.

There's nothing wrong with QFG 3, it's perfectly fine!

But the problem is this, QFG 3 was not really intended to be part of the series, the sole reason we have QFG 3 is this, back when they finished QFG 2, they intended the Hero to be taken all the way to Mordavia to face Katrina and Ad Avis again. And thus, they displayed "Coming soon, QFG 3, Shadows of Darkness!"

But the Coles felt it was unrealistic, that our relatively inexperianced Hero is now going to face a massively dangerous land and deal with vampires. So because of this, they made QFG 3 as an 'in between' game, both to give the Hero more experiance in dealing with extremely deadly situations and to give an additonal history/information about Rakeesh and Uhura, which it sucessfuly does and more.

It does make sense to me that they would, in QFG 1, the stuff the Hero had to face was not nearly as major as QFG 2, which, believe it or not, is also not as big as QFG 4! My theory being that Iblis would simply want to rule Glorianna, not destory it like Avoozel. But the demons coming were going to threaten the world... after they destroyed Tarna of course.

Ok, now that I've explained why QFG 3 exists, I'll get to saying why it's unpopular, it is, for one very simple reason, it's not as non-linear as other games and it is, without a doubt the shortest and simplest of all the QFG's, almost on part with QFG 1 in simpleness.

This is why it's on my least popular one, while the game itself is great and I like it too, but it seems lacking in comparison with other QFG's, that's all.

Till next time stay cool

I think there is more to the creation of QfG3 than the creators' fear of the hero getting beaten up, Paladinlover. They would have simply adjusted the monsters' relative strengths to balance those of the hero.

And also, QfG III was far more non-linear than QfG II, and that game certainly doesn't get a bad rep.

Possibly one reason why some people do not like QfG3 as much as the other games is that they fail to be able to propose to the Bead Seller.

...............................

Or because there's a lot of travelling involved. You can spend days getting from one place to another. It might be a bit tiresome, but it's also more realistic.

I loved the Egyptian atmosphere - this game holds a special place in my heart. Right next to all the other QfG games.

Same here Al, I loved the Egyptian/African feeling of the game, a lot in fact

Till next time stay cool

At least the only major error lets you finish the game

For what have you come, oh friend of Rakeesh!

"Hut of Laibon, now pipe down"...

Actually, the biggest error for me is the one in the warrior initiation, I sometimes get past it, other times no, and on some occassions I just forge about it.

Till next time stay cool

Aye. That error is a pain.

Still, I think I can get past it with a little work.

And speaking of work, right now I'm drawn between playing QFG and editing Conquest of Camelot, I don't know which one I want to do.

Till next time stay cool

I personally can't find any unique flaws in this game.

Neither can I really, apart from that annoying initiation error, which only applies to the Fighter/Paladin anyway, since the Thief or Wizard doesn't have to do it.

Till next time stay cool

It's boring, nothing really special for the theif character to do.

I disagree. I thought breaking into Laibon's hut was extremely fulfilling.

I love QfG3! I rank it right above QfG1, but right under SoD. WoW is, I think, the only QfG I've played through three times in a row, in one sitting, trying out all three character classes. Another thing that's nice about it, I had to look up walkthroughs for the other four, but I was able to complete WoW without any help at all. Games shouldn't be too easy, I don't think, but they definitely shouldn't be too hard either.

Or too linear.

3 times in 1 sitting! EGAD!

Adventure games shouldn't be too hard either, I have the Watchmaker with me, the game is so darn big, but at the same time it's hard. For some reason, I think that true team work is needed between the two Heroes in the game to actually finish it, and that's something very hard at the moment. I've skimmed through a walkthrough (but I didn't actually read anything), and from the looks of it, the game doesn't sound so long, but it sure sounds hard! In fact, I haven't played it in a while... come to think of it, the only games I'm current playing are on my emulator.

And yes, I agree with Orion, games shouldn't be that Linear either, for once I'd like to see an adventure game that can be finished with two COMPLETELY different ways! Not just alternate solutions to puzzles. I've noticed that King's Quest 6 is the only one that really has that option, and even then, not completely.

Till next time stay cool

Well... KQ6 has the 'same' ending, just 2 different ways to get to it

Same ending is ok, but the two different ways is what is needed. In King'a Quest 6, the two ways are, as I like to call the, the 'magic' and 'non-magic', since one of them requires it, the other doesn't.

In the QFG universe, I would definately like it if, when you reach Rasier, there could be a way of disposing Ad Avis WITHOUT getting captured, and without actually going into the forbidden city. That might be complicated, but it would definately be worth a look!

Till next time stay cool

But the Forbidden City is a huge part of the plot. Without which, you'd have never known the whole Prophecy, or met the Djinn...

Absolutely.

What I'd like to see is alternative ways of achieving things if the subquest is time-dependent. For instance, if one doesn't see the thief being caught in Tarna, what other way is there of achieving the same effect?

You don't have to!

Remember, in KQ's 6, the two ways to finish the game are radically different, one of them involves going into the realm of death and bringing people back to life! This is a MAJOR part. But you can actually do it through subterfuge instead.

Also, I do think that Prophases are bit much in the QFG series, I mean 4 out of 5 games had some kind of prophasy! QFG 1 had the 'comes the hero from the east' thing, QFG 2's prophasy involved the hero doing some major stuff in the Forbidden city, QFG 3 (as mentioned by Rakeesh near the final battle), involved four people that come from very different lives and fight together. QFG 4 didn't have one, to the best of my knowledge, although I could be mistaken. In QFG 5 there was one about the Dragon of Doom rising up and destroying the world.

While this is fine and dandy mostly, but come on! Just how many prophasies can one person be involved in!

Till next time stay cool

Try Arcanum, PL. Depending on what you do throughout the game, your ending is definitely different. Quests, dialog, and things you find along the way can also differ depending on the character you create.

As far as WoW is concerned, I enjoyed it, though not as much as some of the others. It was a little too slow in parts, and the resolution too quick. But the idea and the graphics are hard to fault.

My 2 kopeks...

What did you exept when the game is made by the great Tim Caine and the Troika that brought you "Fallout" and "Fallout 2"?

Glad you agree, Mikkel...

Oh yeah, Arcanum, I remember I used to play that game like there was no tomorrow, I really, really liked it, and I even contemplated making my own game with the mod maker that came with it. Making games seemed like a breeze based on the tutorial, and the scripting is so elementary that NO programming knowledge is even needed! Just using the examples in the tutorial and modifying them is all your need!

And yes, I am aware of the ending differences, I looked up a walkthrough just so I can get the maximum possible amount of stuff to see in the end... of course, if you decide to join Kergan, you get a very short and very unsatisfying end.

Unfortunately, I never quite got to actually making it. I lost interest pretty quickly.

Till next time stay cool

Ah well...

Ah well what?

Till next time stay cool

The first time I played it, I loved it. It's way easier than QfG2, partly due to the fact to the parser-interface. No more trouble with knowing what questions to ask, it's all practically given to you. But it's way less satisfying for later replaying. For one thing it's pretty much the shortest QfG, for another it contains very few subquests (not only for the thief, also for the wizard: how many new spells do you actually learn? Summon staff which is indeed limited to the wiz, lightning bolt from Johari - which everyone can learn - and maybe just one more. If so, I forgot what and where.) Also it's the only game where I have never managed to get all points with any char. In most of the other four, I managed to get all points with pretty much any char! Part of that in QfG3 is due to the bug with the Laibon "Why have you come here, friend of Rakeesh?" If I hear that one phrase one more time, I'll run screaming. Part of it is that often Johari appeared before I had a chance to make friends with the Laibon's son. Or maybe some other things as well. I don't know. Also it's really hard to max your spells here because mana pills are just too expensive. Unless you import heaps of them from QfG2, you'll have to live without maxing everything (or spend days and days and days training)
While I thought it an awesome game the first time (great graphics, great music, simple interface, way easier than QfG2), it's not as replayable as the other four games. If I play it now, I usually see QfG3 just as a means to one end: training my hero a bit in between 2 and 4 - or rather training my hero on my way to 5.

QFG3 is unpopular? I couldn't have guessed. Personally, it's one of my favorites. Since I have always been obsessed with the prospect of Paladins I found this game very appealing because it added more diversity to that prospect. The music was great and the feel was realistic. The place had detailed customs, as you would expect in a foreign land, and they were well laid out.

By the way, has anyone ever killed the mirror demon? I think the Paladin should be able to... just because his sword flames and the demon's doesnt. Honor shall triumph over all... (but if that fails a thief stabbing the enemy in the back won't hurt.)

-Torin

While QFG3 isn't my favorite of the series (QFG2 is) I still enjoyed it.

Good things about the game:

1. I enjoyed the honor aspect of things. To me that was a very important aspect of learning to be a hero.
2. The prophecy. I went through the vision given by the goddess a dozen times picking different symbols to see the new questions asked!
3. The world tree. That was just... just... just plain neat!
4. Mankala. The game you play in the village (called Awari there) is something you can buy at any good game store. I got hooked on it playing QFG3 and bought my own set. I loved it! I even used it as a teaching tool in my classes.
5. Interpersonal relationships. Yes, you got to make friends in QFG1 and 2 but sometimes those relationships lacked a certain level of personal depth. For the first time in QFG you were able to really connect to characters on a one on one level. The writing there was excellent.
6. LOVE! Romance becomes a factor! Sure, you can ask people out in the previous two games but in this one you get to smoochie with the hot jungle gal! What could be better! Seriously, I'm a sucker for a good romance and QFG3, 4 and 5 have a special place in my heart because they give me good ones.
7. Team work - you can't do it alone. In the end you need help from your friends. Proving that the best skill the hero has isn't fighting or magic or sneaking. Its an open heart and a desire to listen to others.
8. Manu! Oh, come on! The monkey village was cool!
9. The Pool of Peace - A garden spot made by Erana was strikingly missing, to me, from QFG2. It was nice to see Erana's work in QFG3.
10. Sleeping outside is possible. I like that you have that option.

Some bad things about the game:

1. Playing as a fighter, I found it almost impossible to NOT become a paladin without doing some really thievy stuff. Each of my four characters, in my head, has a specific personality. My fighter wasn't a goody goody but he wasn't the kind of person who would do the things needed to lower his honor to pre-Paladin levels either.
2. Bugs. The more complex Sierra games at the time got the more bugs they had. The little ones in this game were enough to make me want to scream at some points. Laibon's hut, anyone?
3. My poor thief had very little to do. No thieves guild. No break in houses unless you count the chieftan's huts. I understand that the societies the game were set in made thieving more difficult than Shapier or Spielburg but a little more to do would have been nice.
4. Morphing girl! Our favorite leopard woman seemed to me to keep changing appearances depending on where she was. Especially her hair. When my hero was kissing her outside the village I kept saying to myself - is this the same woman I 'bought' in the savanna?
5. Not many spells! As a magic junkie I loved the interesting spells you could pick up in 1 and 2. Sure, in 3 you get the staff (and the staff rocked my world!) but I think maybe a spell or two more would have been nice. Especially a spell hidden in Erana's pool.
6. No adventurer's guild! What's up with that? Signing my name in the log book is one of my favorite activities in the other games!
7. Running away. For my thief and magic user I spent long amounts of time running away from monsters. At times it seemed like I'd never get away from them - just run through endless screens of savanna or jungle.
8. Just before you and your friends go to face the demon mirrors, Rakeesh uses his paladin powers to remove stone from the entranceway. Now, I understand that Rakeesh is and always will be a better paladin, but how does removing stone from an entranceway fit into the paladin power set? I think that could have been written a tad better.
9. The river - I would have liked to have been able to go down to the river and see close up scenes of it. Just a wierd little quirk on my part.
10. Combat training. In 1 and 2 there are places where I can sharpen my combat skills without spending endless time wandering the land looking for monsters I can usually kill in a few swipes and wasting health, stamina, mana and poison cures. It would have been nice to have a sparring partner in 3 (and 4 and 5, for that matter).

All in all I liked 3. I think it was a good part of the series and an important development. Let's remember that without 3 we wouldn't feel as close to Rakeesh as we do, probably wouldn't have Shakra, Salim or Julinar in 5 and wouldn't have gotten to truly begin to understand the paladin class.

J

Very nicely written JRinaldi

But if you want to know the best way to aviod becoming a Paladin as a fighter, it is to refuse to take the oath, and possibly not help Yusufu (you need to do both). But not taking the oath is a bit unheroic in my own opionon.

Till next time stay cool

I still wanna know what's up with the apparently implied random sex that goes down with the hero & Johari O_o

I too wonder about that. For one thing, there seemed to be no real reason for them to kiss, they spoke a bit, but I don't think there was any romance at that time. Besides, she winds out marrying Yusufu at the end anyway.

But then again, it's been so long since I've played QFG 3, my memory is seriously starting to fail me about the game, I should go back and play it.

Till next time stay cool

It was a "Special kind of friendship"

Honestly... tho... The fact that Devon tracked her down... and didn't run when he heard the noises... It made her think he was special... <grin>

I remember that part, but she still hated him when she found him. In fact, I don't think she thought they'd be 'friends' at that time anyway.

Till next time stay cool

Orion -

Exactly. In my mind, my fighter would have taken the oath. On the other hand I think he might have passed on helping out in the initiation contest. Hmm..


J

I'd just like say one thing, "Remember the unicorn head in the QFG5 Adventures' Guild."

Here's my two centimes on why QfG3 is not as (generally) well-loved or favorably remembered:

It all comes down to the villain. In QfG1, you face some very concrete villains - Baba Yaga and the Brigands. They are well-defined, and built up to create a sense of danger for the Hero and the land of Spielburg. In QfG2, the villain is shrouded in mystery for much of the game, but very early on you get many examples of his evil and foreshadowing of more to come (Elementals, the caged beast, Aziza's crystal ball, etc). In QfG4, the entire atmosphere is that of suspense and mystery. You know that there is a great evil confronting you, but who is it? It could be anyone in this creepy land of Mordavia. It could be the innkeeper, or your secret crush. Everyone has something to hide, and examples of this evil abound, from the monestary to the swamp, to the craziness of carniverous rabbits. In QfG5 we have another clearly defined villain, the dragon, although the mastermind behind it and the assassin provide the mysterious element.

The key is this: these games have a sense of crescendo. You start out small, and the tension builds slowly, until you get to the end and the tangled skein begins to unweave. When you defeat the enemy, you feel a sense of accomplishment and heroism. Now, perhaps this is just me, but I didn't feel that there was a crescendo in QfG3, nor did I feel that I really accomplished anything. This is because there is no real sense of danger built up throughout the game. In order for there to be suspense, the threat has to specificaly target the Hero, or someone close to him. Never did Wages of War make me worry greatly, indeed, I didn't have any sense of urgency until the very end. At that point, when the demon reveals himself, he has not been built up enough as a "bad guy" for me to feel anything towards him. I understand that he must be defeated, but how can I tell that if we met on the street, he wouldn't be just some guy?

That's my theory. Crescendo. This isn't to say that QfG3 is not a good game, by any means. It has some very important sequences, it plays an important role in the series, and explores areas of adventure that the other games do not. However, it really lacks that good villain the rest of the series has.

(Note: QfG5 is not the best example of crescendo...mostly because of the letdown at the end. This is another important element of the series that is also missing in QfG3: the payoff. Before the Hero can celebrate his victory, he is whisked away! Obviously, this is an important plot point, but it also doesn't create that feeling of triumph. In QfG5, as we all know, the problem is that there is no real celebration. Another factor there is probably that instead of using your intelligence to defeat the enemy, for the first time in the series you use mainly brawn to kill the baddie. But that's another topic, for another thread. )

-hoopyfroodcat

You make some excellent points.

Not entirely true. There's the short ending, which has (near as I can tell) a single possible ending scene. Then there are maybe 5 different endings to the long route, with various different elements to it. However, in general... yeah, two endings plus several less-happy endings.

That's why I prefer QFG. The game endings are only good. Because the only way to get a bad ending is by dying or failing and then dying.

nothing is a bad ending as long as there is a good joke attatched to it.

Good point, I wasn't really angry with a death screen (as long as I saved) if I was too busy laughing.

Yeah, that stupid Laibon glitch... and then the Initiation bug... and the ever-elusive random crash for no apparent reason other than to piss you off!

Well, I liked QFG3, but it felt really short and the thief class got royally screwed out of this one on things to do. Wizard wasn't a whole lot better either. Juggling lights??? Does anyone ever use that outside of a puzzle?



Still a nice game. At least it's not as buggy as QFG4.

*idly wonders if she already said something, but is too lazy to check*

The only things I didn't like about this game is that the thief class doesn't have any non-quest related items to steal, and several of the mage spells were useless. Otherwise, it was good, I like it.

there is noting wrong with WoW i like it even more then TbF and it's my brother's favorite QfG game.

I thought this game was ok. I don't hate it, but I don't think to much of it.